Discussion:
NetBSD vs FreeBSD
Zafer Aydogan
2004-08-13 12:58:37 UTC
Permalink
Hello Newsgroup,

I am quite new to NetBSD and worked with FreeBSD and Linux before.
But, what is the main difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD beside the
portabilty? My architecture is i386.

Thanks, Zafer.
Ihsan Dogan
2004-08-13 13:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi Zafer,
Post by Zafer Aydogan
I am quite new to NetBSD and worked with FreeBSD and Linux before.
But, what is the main difference between NetBSD and FreeBSD beside the
portabilty? My architecture is i386.
NetBSD and FreeBSD have different project goals. IMHO, this is
the main difference.


Ihsan...
--
Swiss Unix User Group: http://www.suug.ch/
Software Packages for Solaris: http://www.blastwave.org/
Ian Main
2004-08-13 18:43:41 UTC
Permalink
I'm burning with antisipation, and the dates go by and no logo? What's
a guy to do?! :)

Ian
Bob Bernstein
2004-08-14 16:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Main
I'm burning with antisipation, and the dates go by and no logo? What's
a guy to do?! :)
Absent, apparently, any response to your earnest query, may one ask with
all due respect: What logo? What dates?


Best,
--
Bob Bernstein
Jean-Luc Wasmer
2004-08-17 14:14:13 UTC
Permalink
Great thread!!! Can I join?

Can someone just answer this question "What is going on?".

The contest was announced mid-January and people had only 6 weeks to
come up with a logo. At the end of the month, it will be 6 month after
the end of the competition.
I think, just by courtesy for the guys who spend time designing a logo,
we should be kept up to date with the developments (or lack of).

As far as I'm concerned, I dislike the current logo and I think it
should be changed.
I had no clue until 2 years ago about its historical reference. So, what
did I think the first time I saw it (around 1999 I guess):
- it's dark, complex and difficult to assimilate;
- wtf is this supposed to mean? It looks like the daemons are fitting
the hardware. Ho, no, I get it, the daemons are fitting to get the flag.
So daemons are using the hardware to get the flag (= NetBSD = kernel =?
control). That's the worst logo I've ever seen. Even the penguin is better.
- it repels me (I try not to stay/go on the main page).

JL
Jeremy C. Reed
2004-08-17 17:11:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jean-Luc Wasmer
I think, just by courtesy for the guys who spend time designing a logo,
we should be kept up to date with the developments (or lack of).
The designers were all sent emails at different times during the past
several months telling them the status of their logos.

Stay tuned ... an announcement will be made soon ...

Jeremy C. Reed

technical support & remote administration
http://www.pugetsoundtechnology.com/

Richard Rauch
2004-08-14 20:59:12 UTC
Permalink
A while back, it was decreed that the iamge on the NetBSD homepage
was going to be taken down. I saw several objections to it and do
not know which ones were ultimately influential. (The ones that
were floated were:

* Offensive to certain religious sects who place "demons" and
"devils" in their pantheon and find depiction of similar-looking
figures on a web site or in an image associated with a product
to be unacceptable.

* The Iwo(sp) Jima allusion of the home page may variously offend
U.S. people (using the famous flag-raising for a product image),
Japanese people (using a famous flag-raising at a battle that
the U.S. won), or any other nation (using U.S. allusions rather
than *their* country)).

* The image is too old and it's time for New And Improved.

* The image is not adequate for a logo, hence is not valid for a
web-page.

* Some(?) depictions of the BSD daemon look like a "college
mascott".

There may be other reasons. Those are the ones that I have seen
and remember.

So, a contest was set up, with a small prize. Some other users
offered up more money for the prize. The hope was to get some
professional artists to do a serious job of designing the logo,
I gather. A first round of selections was to be done, followed
by at least a second round of votes.

(I recall that the daemon imagery was expressly forbidden for
entries.)

At one time, I had the impression that the second round was to be
a public vote of NetBSD users, but later I read that it was to
be a private vote by some select group.

I understand that at least the first round has been completed. I
do not recall seeing further announcements.
--
"I probably don't know what I'm talking about." http://www.olib.org/~rkr/
Joel Rees
2004-08-14 23:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Rauch
...
* The Iwo(sp) Jima
"Iwo" would be historically accurate and most commonly recognized.
"Iwa" is a crag, but Japanese is not written in Latin alphabet, so
there is no particularly "correct" spelling of the name of the island.
Post by Richard Rauch
...
Here's one of the threads about the contest for anyone who (like me)
missed it:


http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=netbsd-announce&m=107404201018967&w=2

--
Joel Rees
Opinions are like armpits.
We all have two, and they all smell,
but we really don't want the other guy to get rid of his.
Sean Davis
2004-08-15 01:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joel Rees
Post by Richard Rauch
...
* The Iwo(sp) Jima
"Iwo" would be historically accurate and most commonly recognized.
"Iwa" is a crag, but Japanese is not written in Latin alphabet, so
there is no particularly "correct" spelling of the name of the island.
Post by Richard Rauch
...
Here's one of the threads about the contest for anyone who (like me)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=netbsd-announce&m=107404201018967&w=2
--
Joel Rees
Opinions are like armpits.
We all have two, and they all smell,
but we really don't want the other guy to get rid of his.
Daemon imagery is forbidden? nice. We're going to end up with
something stupid like OpenBSD's blowfish. Pray that they continue to
stall on choosing a new logo. The Daemon has been associated with BSD
for decades. Killing it now just to be politically correct would be
absurd.
--
Sean
Bob Bernstein
2004-08-15 04:24:58 UTC
Permalink
The Daemon has been associated with BSD for decades.
Killing it now just to be politically correct would be
absurd.
Well, where political correctness is concerned, absurdity is the order
of the day. Some harmless cartoon figure is banished, while truly
pernicious imagery, such as this:

Loading Image...

gets a free pass.

Go figure.
--
Bob Bernstein
Brian Rose
2004-08-15 14:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Bernstein
http://gilbou.shacknet.nu/images/lsm/2003/angry_penguins.jpeg
[Depicts a couple of guys, looking like 'terrorists' with a poster of an
angry Rambo-like penguin and the letters P.L.F. (Penguin Liberation Front)].



Brian Are you the Penguin Liberation Front?

Reg F--- off.

Brian What?

Reg Penguin Liberation Front. (scoffs) We're the Penguin's Front
of Freedom. Penguin Liberation front, caw.

Francis Wankers.

Brian Can I join your group?

Reg No. Piss off.

Brian I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I
hate Microsoft as much as anybody.

PFF [nervously] Sssh! Ssssh, sssh, sssh, ssssh.

Judith Are you sure?

Brian Oh. Dead sure... I hate Microsoft already.

Reg Listen. If you really wanted to join the PFF, you'd have
to really hate Microsoft.

Brian I do.

Reg Oh yeah? How much?

Brian A lot!

Reg Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than
Microsoft are the f---ing Penguin Liberation Front

PFF [together, nodding in agreement] Yeah

Judith [disgusted] Splitters

Francis And the Penguin Popular Liberation Front.

PFF Oh yeah. Splitters.

Loretta And the Penguin's Front of Freedom.

PFF Splitters.

Reg What?

Loretta The Penguin's Front of Freedom. Splitters.

Reg We're the Penguin's Front of Freedom.

Loretta Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.

Reg Penguin's Front! [scoffs]

Francis Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?

Reg He's over there.

[A single old man sits on a lower seat.]

PFF [To the old man.] SPLITTER!


--

Brian
Stefan Schumacher
2004-08-15 15:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Brian Rose
Brian Are you the Penguin Liberation Front?
Reg F--- off.
Brian What?
Reg Penguin Liberation Front. (scoffs) We're the Penguin's Front
of Freedom. Penguin Liberation front, caw.
Francis Wankers.
Brian Can I join your group?
Reg No. Piss off.
Brian I didn't want to sell this stuff. It's only a job. I
hate Microsoft as much as anybody.
PFF [nervously] Sssh! Ssssh, sssh, sssh, ssssh.
Judith Are you sure?
Brian Oh. Dead sure... I hate Microsoft already.
Reg Listen. If you really wanted to join the PFF, you'd have
to really hate Microsoft.
Brian I do.
Reg Oh yeah? How much?
Brian A lot!
Reg Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than
Microsoft are the f---ing Penguin Liberation Front
PFF [together, nodding in agreement] Yeah
Judith [disgusted] Splitters
Francis And the Penguin Popular Liberation Front.
PFF Oh yeah. Splitters.
Loretta And the Penguin's Front of Freedom.
PFF Splitters.
Reg What?
Loretta The Penguin's Front of Freedom. Splitters.
Reg We're the Penguin's Front of Freedom.
Loretta Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
Reg Penguin's Front! [scoffs]
Francis Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
Reg He's over there.
[A single old man sits on a lower seat.]
PFF [To the old man.] SPLITTER!
Maybe we should take Jehova as a new logo?

___
________________ _,-'_ `\
__________ ,' ,-' ( ) `)
___________ ( ( ( ( ( (
__________`, `, `, ( ( \
____________ ( ( (_ ( __ ) )
_______________ ` `--_____--'



SCNR ;-)
--
FATHER: You killed eight wedding guests in all!
LAUNCELOT: Well, uh, you see, the thing is, I thought your son was a lady.
FATHER: I can understand that.
HERBERT: Hurry, Sir Launcelot! Hurry!
Richard Rauch
2004-08-15 05:12:45 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 09:44:16PM -0400, Sean Davis wrote:
[...]
Post by Sean Davis
Daemon imagery is forbidden? nice. We're going to end up with
something stupid like OpenBSD's blowfish. Pray that they continue to
The discussion has been and done. I think that the daemon may stay
around (though that may be just a misinterpretation on my part),
but it was disallowed for the contest logos.

My thought was to submit a logo based on a cockroach. It has lots
of appropriate qualities, not least of which is being non-daemonish. (^&
A caption could be, "Our only bugs are in the logo!" (which isn't 100%
true, but...). Or "We get everywhere." Or, "We survive." Or even,
"We have ancestral roots at universities..." Alas, I didn't get around
to doing more than the concept before the deadline.

Roaches are also non-fuzzy (someone objected to fuzzy mascotts), and
we could hardly be accused of going with the characture just because
it was cute/popular. And you can do things with roaches, giving them
toys to play with (and with 6 limbs, you've got more lattitude for
toys).

I rather doubt that we get a roach-based logo, though.

We'll see what's unveiled when the time comes.
--
"I probably don't know what I'm talking about." http://www.olib.org/~rkr/
c***@gmail.com
2004-08-15 09:43:30 UTC
Permalink
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
Post by Sean Davis
stall on choosing a new logo. The Daemon has been associated with BSD
for decades. Killing it now just to be politically correct would be absurd.
Sean Davis
2004-08-15 11:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed. They don't have exclusive usage
rights to it. And please clarify: "cleaner?" cleaner than what? than
the daemon? or than the iwo jima logo we have now? I don't personally
like the iwo jima logo much, but if I had to choose between it and,
say, the OpenBSD blowfish, I would certainly pick it. A 007 looking
puffer fish is pretty hard to take seriously.

I'm just... I dunno, bothered that the core NetBSD folks are changing
our logo in order to be politically correct (daemons are bad! only
satanists use BSD!). I think they're forgetting that no matter what,
not everyone will be happy with it, and I would put money on less
people being happy with the new logo than are currently happy with the
one we've had for a long time now.
Post by c***@gmail.com
Post by Sean Davis
stall on choosing a new logo. The Daemon has been associated with BSD
for decades. Killing it now just to be politically correct would be absurd.
--
Sean
Ja'far Railton
2004-08-15 11:56:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:07:53 -0400
Post by Sean Davis
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol.
[...]
Post by Sean Davis
I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed.
Well, all the more reason to have a new logo then - if the Demon is for 'BSD Generic' then it's only logical for each BSD to have its own unique logo to differentiate it from the others.
Post by Sean Davis
I'm just... I dunno, bothered that the core NetBSD folks are changing
our logo in order to be politically correct (daemons are bad! only
satanists use BSD!).
Demons may be more ambiguous but the present symbol is really a cartoon Devil, let's be honest. Bad is what the Devil represents, isn't it? Some people _like_ being bad, but is it really such a good image for a serious, mature product? In any case, let no one be under any illusions - at the end of the day it's "the great and good" who will make the decision.

--
I used to be bad but I ain't gonna be bad no more...

-- Paul McCartney
Henrik Edlund
2004-08-15 13:44:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Ja'far Railton wrote:

JR> Demons may be more ambiguous but the present symbol is really a
JR> cartoon Devil, let's be honest. Bad is what the Devil represents,
JR> isn't it? Some people _like_ being bad, but is it really such a good
JR> image for a serious, mature product? In any case, let no one be under
JR> any illusions - at the end of the day it's "the great and good" who
JR> will make the decision.

It probably depends on your religion (or lack thereof), ethics, morale,
culture and so on if you see a cartoon devil as good or bad. There is
impossible to classify it as bad as a fact. That would be to impose your
own standards onto others.

You can't just classify people as bad if they like "the devil". That would
be imposing your own religion, ethics, morale and culture upon them.

As a side note, corporations spend hundreds of millions of dollars in
finding a symbole that is PC in every country on this planet. Still the PR
firm they hired still often fails as there probably is one little nation
state somewhere where even a blue-eyed angle-faced baby isn't PC.

Henrik
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
Henrik Edlund
2004-08-15 15:46:17 UTC
Permalink
What a wonderful bikeshed discussion! :)
Off-topic, but for a non-native English speaker; what is a "bikeshed
discussion"?
"They that can give up essential daemons to obtain a little temporary
political correctness deserve neither BSD nor popularity..."
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
I fully agree.

Henrik
c***@cubidou.net
2004-08-15 15:48:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Edlund
What a wonderful bikeshed discussion! :)
Off-topic, but for a non-native English speaker; what is a "bikeshed
discussion"?
It's not an english idiomatic. More a danish one...

http://www.unixguide.net/freebsd/faq/16.19.shtml

Quentin Garnier.
c***@cordula.ws
2004-08-15 15:34:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Henrik Edlund
JR> Demons may be more ambiguous but the present symbol is really a
JR> cartoon Devil, let's be honest. Bad is what the Devil represents,
JR> isn't it? Some people _like_ being bad, but is it really such a good
JR> image for a serious, mature product? In any case, let no one be under
JR> any illusions - at the end of the day it's "the great and good" who
JR> will make the decision.
It probably depends on your religion (or lack thereof), ethics, morale,
culture and so on if you see a cartoon devil as good or bad. There is
impossible to classify it as bad as a fact. That would be to impose your
own standards onto others.
What a wonderful bikeshed discussion! :)
Post by Henrik Edlund
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759
"They that can give up essential daemons to obtain a little temporary
political correctness deserve neither BSD nor popularity..."

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

cpghost.
--
Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/
c***@cubidou.net
2004-08-15 12:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean Davis
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed. They don't have exclusive usage
rights to it. And please clarify: "cleaner?" cleaner than what? than
the daemon? or than the iwo jima logo we have now? I don't personally
like the iwo jima logo much, but if I had to choose between it and,
say, the OpenBSD blowfish, I would certainly pick it. A 007 looking
puffer fish is pretty hard to take seriously.
I'm just... I dunno, bothered that the core NetBSD folks are changing
our logo in order to be politically correct (daemons are bad! only
satanists use BSD!). I think they're forgetting that no matter what,
not everyone will be happy with it, and I would put money on less
people being happy with the new logo than are currently happy with the
one we've had for a long time now.
Please stop assuming what TNF thinks or does, it's annoying.

TNF is not looking for a new mascot, nobody wants the daemon out. TNF
is looking for a logo, which there is not at the moment.

These days the Olympics Games are taking place, I hope you can make the
difference between a logo and a mascot:

http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicMascots

The logo is the the symbol at the top left. Totally different from the
mascots.

The results will be published, just be patient.

Quentin Garnier.
Sean Davis
2004-08-15 13:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@cubidou.net
Post by Sean Davis
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed. They don't have exclusive usage
rights to it. And please clarify: "cleaner?" cleaner than what? than
the daemon? or than the iwo jima logo we have now? I don't personally
like the iwo jima logo much, but if I had to choose between it and,
say, the OpenBSD blowfish, I would certainly pick it. A 007 looking
puffer fish is pretty hard to take seriously.
I'm just... I dunno, bothered that the core NetBSD folks are changing
our logo in order to be politically correct (daemons are bad! only
satanists use BSD!). I think they're forgetting that no matter what,
not everyone will be happy with it, and I would put money on less
people being happy with the new logo than are currently happy with the
one we've had for a long time now.
Please stop assuming what TNF thinks or does, it's annoying.
When TNF doesn't tell us anything about what they think or do, what
else do we have to go on?
Being kept in the dark is annoying, also.
Post by c***@cubidou.net
TNF is not looking for a new mascot, nobody wants the daemon out. TNF
is looking for a logo, which there is not at the moment.
That's reassuring, at least.
Post by c***@cubidou.net
These days the Olympics Games are taking place, I hope you can make the
http://www.athens2004.com/en/OlympicMascots
The logo is the the symbol at the top left. Totally different from the
mascots.
Okay, you made your point.
Post by c***@cubidou.net
The results will be published, just be patient.
Is it being timed to coincide with 2.0 being released? Is there some
other plan? If so, what is it?
You can't fault a person for being curious.
--
Sean
Johan A.van Zanten
2004-08-15 16:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@cubidou.net
Please stop assuming what TNF thinks or does, it's annoying.
According to the current information about the project at NetBSD.org, you
do not seem to be part of the NetBSD Foundation, or part of the core group
of developers. So can you explain why what you are saying should be
considered any more authoritative and less annoying that Mr. Davis?
Post by c***@cubidou.net
TNF is not looking for a new mascot, nobody wants the daemon out. TNF
is looking for a logo, which there is not at the moment.
These look like logos to me, and that's what they are called on the web page:

http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/logos.html
Post by c***@cubidou.net
From http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-advocacy/2004/01/14/0001.html
"The NetBSD Foundation is retiring the existing NetBSD daemon identity
and is adopting a new logo."

and then:

"Due to the issues identified above, the current NetBSD daemon character
cannot be used."

Perhaps some of the meaning of the announcement was not understood. The
announcement says "new logo" several times, which implies that there is an
old logo. They also explicity say the "daemon indentity" is to be
retired. Further in the announcement, they note that the "current
identity" has "Has negative cultural, and religious ramifications."

It seems very clear to me that the daemon is unacceptable as a logo.

Perhaps, as you say, it will continue as a mascot, but there's nothing in
the official announcement about this. It seems unlikely to me that NetBSD
will have a daemon mascot and some other image as a logo, and that both of
these will be used. After there is a new logo, continued use of the
daemon mascot would probably undermine the new, "official" logo, because
the daemon has definitely be used (perhaps unofficially) as a logo.

I can understand the desire for NetBSD to have new logo which is
"inoffensive" and distinct from FreeBSD. But we should be honest about
where this is going. The daemon will not be in the logo, and the logo will
be the dominant image associated with the project.

-johan
Chuck Yerkes
2004-08-16 21:58:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sean Davis
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
...
Post by Sean Davis
I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed. They don't have exclusive usage
rights to it. And please clarify: "cleaner?" cleaner than what? than
The Daemon was originally drawn by Berkeley Student John Lassiter
for Kirk McKusick who holds copyright but makes it widely available
for BSD based things and appears to enforce copyright when, say,
a club clothing company puts Beastie onto its retail shirts just
because "it's cool looking".

So far we're good. (I have no issue with someone protecting the
dilution of the Beastie image)

| Yeah, so? Until the advent of BSD/386; FreeBSD; NetBSD; and a bit
| later, OpenBSD; BSD was the purview of academia without much exposure
| to the general populace.
Um, along with THE INTERNET in general.
Post by Sean Davis
the daemon? or than the iwo jima logo we have now? I don't personally
like the iwo jima logo much, but if I had to choose between it and,
I'm just... I dunno, bothered that the core NetBSD folks are changing
our logo in order to be politically correct (daemons are bad! only
satanists use BSD!). I think they're forgetting that no matter what,
not everyone will be happy with it, and I would put money on less
people being happy with the new logo than are currently happy with the
one we've had for a long time now.
A big issue is that the IwoJima image SUCKS as a graphical design for
a logo. It's ugly small and its a bear to reproduce. Large complex
imagery bad for Logos.

http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/logos.html look a lot like the FreeBSD
interpretation of Beastie to me.

Me? again (it's in the archives from last time), I say give him a
bigger pitchfork (trident) and a Net and you've got a fine NET bsd
logo.


Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists ;)


I do like adopting YHWH as a logo.
"NetBSD: God is on our side"
"NetBSD: Your soul is ours"
"NetBSD: Use it or will take another rib"


But mostly that's cause I'm bored :)
Ian Zagorskih
2004-08-17 03:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists ;)
I do like adopting YHWH as a logo.
"NetBSD: God is on our side"
"NetBSD: Your soul is ours"
"NetBSD: Use it or will take another rib"
"NetBSD: All your arch belong to us"

// wbr
Stefan Schumacher
2004-08-17 08:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zagorskih
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists ;)
I do like adopting YHWH as a logo.
"NetBSD: God is on our side"
"NetBSD: Your soul is ours"
"NetBSD: Use it or will take another rib"
"NetBSD: All your arch belong to us"
s/arch/platform
--
Where is security governed through scrutiny?
Your privacy denied, organized and confined!
No place to hide!
No place to hide! - Fear Factory [http://www.net-tex.de]
b***@medianet.pl
2004-08-17 09:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stefan Schumacher
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists
;)
/..cut.../
Post by Stefan Schumacher
s/arch/platform
<mode troll=on>
And 's/ extremist//', right?
What the hell makes you so politically correct that you take so much care
about christians? Don't be such a hipocryte. Just take care of your own
ass, please, and don't "impose your own point of view" (i.e. what is and
what is not "extremism") on others. Thank you.
</mode>

Basing on posts being send to the list lately, looks like the logo is most
important to netbsd-users. Who cares for stability, reliability,
usability, efficiency and clean design, security, up-to-date features? No
one? O tempora, o mores! Kingdom comes, indeed... ;-P

Rgeards,
Piotr Switecki
Ian Zagorskih
2004-08-17 09:50:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@medianet.pl
<mode troll=on>
And 's/ extremist//', right?
What the hell makes you so politically correct that you take so much care
about christians? Don't be such a hipocryte. Just take care of your own
ass, please, and don't "impose your own point of view" (i.e. what is and
what is not "extremism") on others. Thank you.
</mode>
Basing on posts being send to the list lately, looks like the logo is most
important to netbsd-users. Who cares for stability, reliability,
usability, efficiency and clean design, security, up-to-date features? No
one? O tempora, o mores! Kingdom comes, indeed... ;-P
I guess tralling </mode> tag should be placed here :)

// wbr
b***@medianet.pl
2004-08-17 10:16:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Zagorskih
I guess tralling </mode> tag should be placed here :)
Right, my mistake ;)
P.
Chris Wareham
2004-08-17 09:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@medianet.pl
<mode troll=on>
And 's/ extremist//', right?
What the hell makes you so politically correct that you take so much care
about christians? Don't be such a hipocryte. Just take care of your own
ass, please, and don't "impose your own point of view" (i.e. what is and
what is not "extremism") on others. Thank you.
</mode>
Basing on posts being send to the list lately, looks like the logo is most
important to netbsd-users. Who cares for stability, reliability,
usability, efficiency and clean design, security, up-to-date features? No
one? O tempora, o mores! Kingdom comes, indeed... ;-P
Rgeards,
Piotr Switecki
Err, couldn't this stuff move to the advocacy list (if it has to be
posted on the NetBSD lists at all)?

Chris
Stefan Schumacher
2004-08-17 11:31:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@medianet.pl
Post by Stefan Schumacher
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists
;)
/..cut.../
Post by Stefan Schumacher
s/arch/platform
And 's/ extremist//', right?
What the hell makes you so politically correct that you take so much care
about christians?
What do platforms have to do with christians?
Post by b***@medianet.pl
Don't be such a hipocryte.
ROFL, sure *YOU* know me.
--
Der sittliche Wert eines Menschen beginnt erst dort, wo er bereit ist,
für seine Überzeugung sein Leben hinzugeben.

Generalmjor Henning von Tresckow, 21.07.1944
Joel Rees
2004-08-17 13:56:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck Yerkes
...
Me? again (it's in the archives from last time), I say give him a
bigger pitchfork (trident) and a Net and you've got a fine NET bsd
logo.
Neptune or Peter?
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Perhaps harpoon a jesus fish just to piss off the christian extremists ;)
Neptune.
Post by Chuck Yerkes
I do like adopting YHWH as a logo.
Wait.
Post by Chuck Yerkes
"NetBSD: God is on our side"
But then the permissions record and the chmod parameters would have to
be changed so that you'd never see 666 on a properly administered,
secure box.
Post by Chuck Yerkes
...
But mostly that's cause I'm bored :)
Heh.
Mike Parson
2004-08-17 14:02:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 02:58:02PM -0700, Chuck Yerkes wrote:

<snip>
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Me? again (it's in the archives from last time), I say give him a
bigger pitchfork (trident) and a Net and you've got a fine NET bsd
logo.
Heh. I just had an image of the 4.3 deamon wearing a Spiderman costume.
--
Michael Parson
***@bl.org
Gilbert Fernandes
2004-08-17 14:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chuck Yerkes
Me? again (it's in the archives from last time), I say give him a
bigger pitchfork (trident) and a Net and you've got a fine NET bsd
logo.
what about britannia ?

she has a trident, shield and perhaps a net
but i am not sure i recall it correctly.

:)
--
Gilbert Fernandes
s***@rambler.ru
2004-08-15 21:39:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@gmail.com
I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
Post by Sean Davis
stall on choosing a new logo. The Daemon has been associated with BSD
for decades. Killing it now just to be politically correct would be absurd.
Well I reckon a really cool logo would be a hedgehog with an apple, and
on the apple it would say "NetBSD". Hedgehogs are cool coz they're very
discreet and go about their business without much commotion (compared to
penguins). Check this one out Loading Image...
Joel Rees
2004-08-15 08:08:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joel Rees
Post by Richard Rauch
...
* The Iwo(sp) Jima
"Iwo" would be historically accurate and most commonly recognized.
"Iwa" is a crag,
Crag Island would be Iwashima, which is another place (several places
have that name, actually).

Iou is sulphur, and Iwojima is Sulphur Island. In modern romanization
it would be Iojima, according to the Encyclopaedia site. According to
at least one Japanese site I found, it might actually be read Ioto (or
Ioutou, depending on how literally the transliteration is handled).
Post by Joel Rees
but Japanese is not written in Latin alphabet, so there is no
particularly "correct" spelling of the name of the island.
I guess I should unpack that assertion since I made it. There are
several romanization methods in use, the most common group of methods
in current use is collectively called the Hepburn method. (That's a
singular reference, in spite of the plurality of methods). The Hepburn
method is (not co-incidentally) closely related to the keyboard input
methods used to enter Japanese text -- not identical, but closely
related.

Thanks again, Todd.

--
Joel Rees
Complaining about systems that are incomplete misses the point.
In this world, a system can't be perfect and useful at the same
time.
John Nemeth
2004-08-15 16:08:19 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 5, 1:43am, Sean Davis wrote:
} On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 04:43:30 -0500, ***@gmail.com
} > I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
} > recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
} > symbol.
}
} I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
} BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed.

Yeah, so? Until the advent of BSD/386; FreeBSD; NetBSD; and a bit
later, OpenBSD; BSD was the purview of academia without much exposure
to the general populace. Out of these, FreeBSD is probably the most
well known. Heck, go to any book store with a serious computer book
section, and you'll find two or three books on FreeBSD (with daemons on
the cover) amongst the gazillion books on Linux. This is what the
general populace sees. The only people that know more are the ones
that care to dig a little deeper then what is thrust in front of their
faces (which is only a very small portion of the general populace).
Remember, that for any given field, what the general populace thinks
and what the people in the know know there is usually a pretty wide
gap. Remember, also, that perception is everything.

}-- End of excerpt from Sean Davis
Schwerzmann, Stephan
2004-08-16 12:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@rambler.ru
Well I reckon a really cool logo would be a hedgehog with an apple, and
on the apple it would say "NetBSD". Hedgehogs are cool coz they're very
discreet and go about their business without much commotion (compared to
penguins). Check this one out http://www.mark-ju.net/images/hedgehog.jpg
and hedgehogs also do eat bugs and worms!
they help clean the environment form parasites :-)

Stephan
Gilbert Fernandes
2004-08-16 19:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schwerzmann, Stephan
and hedgehogs also do eat bugs and worms!
they help clean the environment form parasites :-)
looks cute. might be a nice choice if we can find a graphist
that can do a nice looking one :o)
--
Gilbert Fernandes
Michael D. Spence
2004-08-16 20:28:28 UTC
Permalink
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:56 PM
To: Schwerzmann, Stephan
Subject: Re: Where's the Logo?
Post by Schwerzmann, Stephan
and hedgehogs also do eat bugs and worms!
they help clean the environment form parasites :-)
looks cute. might be a nice choice if we can find a graphist
that can do a nice looking one :o)
Well, <g> there's a prior use of a hedgehog: http://www.deco.franken.de/.
s***@rambler.ru
2004-08-16 23:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gilbert Fernandes
Post by Schwerzmann, Stephan
and hedgehogs also do eat bugs and worms!
they help clean the environment form parasites :-)
looks cute. might be a nice choice if we can find a graphist
that can do a nice looking one :o)
Well here are a few examples I found on the net, and hedgehogs are quite
easy to draw too

Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
Loading Image...
John Nemeth
2004-08-17 02:00:20 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 6, 9:33am, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
} Quoting Sean Davis (***@gmail.com):
} > On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 04:43:30 -0500, ***@gmail.com
} > > I think, some people had mentioned that the daemon is often times
} > > recognized as a FreeBSD specific icon, rather than a universal BSD
} > > symbol. I personally like the daemon, but a more serious and cleaner
} > > looking logo would be better for NetBSD.
} ...
} > I've heard that, too. It sounds like total BS to me. The daemon was a
} > BSD symbol before FreeBSD existed. They don't have exclusive usage
}
} | Yeah, so? Until the advent of BSD/386; FreeBSD; NetBSD; and a bit
} | later, OpenBSD; BSD was the purview of academia without much exposure
} | to the general populace.
} Um, along with THE INTERNET in general.

Until relatively recently, the Internet was the purview of
academia (and the US military). If you want to talk about recently,
then I'd wager that most people on the Internet have never heard of
BSD. The current Internet is a vast place with a lot of people (most
of whom haven't a clue about most of the stuff on the Internet; heck
I've been on the Internet since 1990 or so, and I won't claim to have
any idea about most of the stuff out there).

} http://www.netbsd.org/gallery/logos.html look a lot like the FreeBSD
} interpretation of Beastie to me.

And, it looks to me that none of them are official. They're just
things that random people have drawn and have offered for use.

} Me? again (it's in the archives from last time), I say give him a
} bigger pitchfork (trident) and a Net and you've got a fine NET bsd
} logo.

This might be interesting.

}-- End of excerpt from Chuck Yerkes
Richard Rauch
2004-08-17 05:50:55 UTC
Permalink
Two things:

I understand that the *original* daemon was drawn by Phil Foglio,
not John Lassiter. So I gather.


Second, more importantly: All that I've ever seen claimed is a
copyright. I am certainly not a lawyer, but a copyright is not a
trademark to my understanding.
purpose.

A copyright just prevents one from taking the particular image,
and making a copy of it (perhaps with modifications) without the
owner's permission. A copyright does not prevent one from making
a new image of the same likeness.


That said, I'll leave the rest of the comments aside, as I've
had my say on them already. (^&
--
"I probably don't know what I'm talking about." http://www.olib.org/~rkr/
Richard Rauch
2004-08-17 11:41:38 UTC
Permalink
I do not think that the daemon is "a cartoon devil".

It has always been explained in my reading that the daemon (note
not spelled "demon" much less "devil") is an image of a helpful
spirit.

Remember, only a Christian can be a devil-worshipper. No one
else believes in the Christian devil. (And screaming "infidel!"
at non-believers doesn't get you a whole lot of good karma,
either. (^&)


Okay, I'm off for my morning run.
--
"I probably don't know what I'm talking about." http://www.olib.org/~rkr/
Loading...